The Struggle of Our Time

"Groagun" (groagun) 02/11/2016 at 16:39 • Filed to: None

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Good vs Evil

!!! UNKNOWN HEADER TYPE (MULTI-LINE BREAK?) !!!

These are the classic and never ending struggles of humanity itself.

Today, that’s a whole other story.

Yes, today we are going to tackle the struggle of Smart vs Stupid .

The Honda RidgeLine: well thought out, researched and built. A practical, focused and rational solution/vehicle. It addresses and solves %90+ of what all truck buyers need.

What it doesn’t do is addresses what truck buyers think they need and more importantly, what they want!

I have some real expertise on this subject as I was a PR and product demonstrator for the original RidgeLine back at it’s introduction: or as I call it, the Ghost of models past.

That’s my baby. or was. I’ll admit that the looks are polarizing and subjective but you cannot deny the capabilities and attributes it had. It had faults, no doubt, but what it did and how it did it is not debatable.

I toured the truck across country and heard many stories and tales from truck owners. Most people fell into 2 categories: one, I’m a truck guy and I need all and more of the capabilities of my F150/Silverado/Ram. Two, this RidgeLine is interesting, tell me more.

The second group of people are, I think, fairly self explanatory. It’s the first group that had many variations within it. Several of those variations were quite negative and occasionally came with either a blatant or subtle racist jab.

I’m no shrinking violet and while I love interacting with people, that does not make me the perfect or ideal PR person. If you talk shit or flat out lie, or in this case say something racist to me, I will let you know what a fucking idiot you are.

Thankfully, most of the people who fell into the “Jap” this or “Jap” that category only numbered a few and to the credit of the population around me, I almost never had to do or say anything because some anonymous stranger would speak up and defend our better nature.

What really got me and still gets me though is the fact that Honda had such a hard time selling this truck and I think will have just as difficult a time this time around with the new one.

Why, you may mask? It stems from a conversation I had with a single guy, in his 20's who worked in the oil fields. I thought, sure he needs a heavy duty truck for his work and the RidgeLine may not be enough for him. That’s legit and we never sold the RidgeLine as anything more than a medium duty truck and were happy to pass along people to Ford/Chevy or even Chrysler at the time for that class of vehicle.

Here is what he said to me though, and I’m paraphrasing form 11 years a go: I don’t use or need my truck for work as they supply all the vehicles we use. I currently have an HD Dodge dually and simply cannot be seen in anything less. All I really carry in it is my hockey bag.

I was floored, but it really exemplified what the truck market is primarly about: Image! “I can’t be seen in anything less.” Those were his exact words and I have never forgotten them.

It didn’t matter how well engineered and though out the RidgeLine was, it just simply wasn’t a TRUCK! WTF does that mean?

He was a nice and I get it, but that is the very definition of STUPID! More over, does it not fly in the face of all, and I mean all of the marketing surrounding the truck as we know it today? Bold, Brash, Capable and Independent!

More like, ‘Way more than I need or will ever use. Way more than I need to spend, and as long as I’m accepted by and have what eveyone else thinks I should have.’

This of course does not disparage those who do need and use HD trucks. The F150/Siverado/Ram are all excellent trucks but built so far beyond the needs of the average Joe that they have become the “clown car” of 2016.

We priced out a few at the Detroit show a few weeks a go and were just amazed at the sticker price of even moderately equipted examples of the Big 3.

I’m a free market believer and would never tell anyone what they can and cannot buy, but that free market also comes with the burden of having to make smart and informed choices and decisions. Simply grabbing for the shinny object that twinkles the brightest is a sign that Stupid is winning over Smart.

One sign that gives me pause in my hope for a smarter future in this:

See that body line I have highlighted? It’s a fake bed break. If you look at the F150/Silverado/Ram you will see a physical break at the bed because all are body on frame, ladder frame vehicles. That’s how we have been building vehicles since the days of chuck wagons in the Wild West.

Seriously, take the time to visit a museum and look at the construction of an old wagon, horse drawn, and then poke you head under any of the new pick ups you want. Except the RidgeLine, which is a uni-body.

Look, most of us will never need or use the capabilities of the modern pick ups at our local dealers. In truth, the RidgeLine does not compete in the same category as the F150/Silverado/Ram. The RidgeLine is a medium duty truck built as a uni-body making it the more practical and smarter choice for the average Joe.

Will he/she buy it this time around? I have no idea and I‘m leaning towards the no side but I have hope. I hope Smart wins over some of the Stupid this time around.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 16:49

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Having worked in insurance, it always made me laugh when people who had no business owning a truck bitched about how much their V8 HD truck takes gas, then they end up buying a used shitmobile as a commuter car because they want to save money on gas, then they’d try and shit on me for insurance on a second vehicle which they wouldn’t have needed if they were sensible about their first choice in vehicle.

HammerheadFistpunch > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 17:02

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This is great stuff! Interesting about that bedbreak, I was trying to figure out how the structure was going to support that but I’m...genuinely disappointed at finding out that its false. I’ve said this before and I will say it again about the ridgeline - I wish more truck people were as brave and confident as ridgeline buyers. These are the guys (and gals) in my opinion that show up with old ski or bike gear or whatever at the trailhead in a sea of hyper-expensive up to the minute designs and then go out and kill it on the trail.

I looked at a first gen but it genuinely didn’t suite my needs (low range/off road) and as such had to pass but I respect a man or women who can give the middle finger to such stupid notions as you’ve encountered while pimping the ridgie. God bless the ridgeline buyer.

E92M3 > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 17:15

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It would be all the truck I need as long as it will tow 6000lbs. I don’t need anymore than that. I know a lot of people insist they need 10,000lb+ of towing capacity. I’ve towed 6-8k lbs a few times with my MDX which is only rated for 5000. The trailers had brakes otherwise it would of been perhaps a little dangerous. I don’t plan on buying a huge trailer/camper/boat anytime soon so it would be perfect.

Nothing > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 17:16

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I had a Tundra, now have a Tacoma. I have neighbors/relatives that are truck owners. They are also union. They liked the Tundra in particular, but in no way would they dare buy one.

That's a decent percentage of truck buyers, right there.

Bytemite > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 17:18

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Honestly, Americans (most) are dumb as bricks. Look at how far this Trump joke has gone. Look at what is the best selling “car” in America. Are you telling me we have that many construction workers? Hell no. We got a bunch of rednecks and white collar Joes overcompensating for their...shortcomings with an oh so MANLY TRUCK!

Birddog > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 17:32

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I hope Smart wins over some of the Stupid this time around.

Good grief.

I’m getting soured on the new Ridgeline and I haven’t even seen one in the flesh. Why? Because every time there’s a mention of it someone has to say “this is all the truck you need ”, or there is some disparaging remark about “ stupid ” people that buy full size trucks.

If we all bought vehicles that only exactly fit our needs this would be one boring ass place. Give everyone a Beige, 4 cylinder pseudo station wagon and call it a day. Because that would fit the needs of 90% of the drivers on the planet.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > gin-san - shitpost specialist 02/11/2016 at 17:32

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There’s no such thing as a vehicle you have no business having. Unless it’s a fully armed tank. There are vehicles you don’t need. Guess what else falls into that category? Sports cars.

On the gas/insurance front, gas is cheap. Insurance kills you. Guess what’s generally cheaper to insure? Right, trucks.

Moltenburn > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 17:36

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Spot on article. Good read. This is one of the reasons why I feel as a country we are failing so hard. It is not what we need, it is about image, and honestly this is why a lot of the rest of the educated world thinks we suck. No that being our mentality I hope the next Ridgeline is a sales flop. I say this b/c I really really want the Ridgeline to be my next pick up truck, and hope to steal one off the lot when the time comes.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Bytemite 02/11/2016 at 17:39

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Here’s a novel concept for you. Some people genuinely enjoy driving trucks.

Here’s another. The pickup is by far the most practical vehicle to have if you can only have one vehicle.

Here’s yet another one. For us younger drivers, insurance is killer. Trucks are much cheaper to insure, and in the big picture gas costs peanuts when compared with insurance for us. So... we can save money by getting vehicle with a quite powerful V8, and has the added bonus of being very practical.

I personally fall into all three groups... but not the American part.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > HammerheadFistpunch 02/11/2016 at 17:40

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The fake bed break goes back to the image thing. It’s a pointed attempt at convincing those who are so dead set on the image of what a truck should be

HammerheadFistpunch > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 02/11/2016 at 17:41

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not sure a fake line is going to win over a lot of people...then again I may be giving too much credit to people who use the phrase “truck guy” without any irony.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Birddog 02/11/2016 at 17:41

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But this is oppo, where many cannot fathom that one could actually enjoy driving a pickup.

Berang > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 17:49

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You know that Chevy commercial with the bear and the steel and aluminum cages?

Marketing isn’t about selling people what they need, it’s about making them want something they understand nothing about.

This is an obvious jab at Ford’s use of aluminum, which people perceive to be an inferior material to steel. Doesn’t matter if it is or not in reality. It’s just that people feel it is.

But it’s the same thing. People buy what they feel they need, not what they actually need, and that means people often make reasonably stupid choices.

Bytemite > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 02/11/2016 at 17:49

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I keep hearing this rebuttal from the same idiotic full-size truck buyers trying to justify their decision. If you made the argument with a track car like maybe an Atom or Caterham, that would make sense. A sports car is a vehicle the driver gets pleasure out of USING. If a sports car is being driven like its supposed to be, then the driver does have a business owning it. A truck is a work vehicle. If the driver does not use the truck or have any intention of using a truck for truck purposes, he is just driving a truck for stupid reasons like Image.

Again, sports cars and trucks are not the same thing. One is being driven for the enjoyment of driving. One is just being not used.

Berang > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 02/11/2016 at 17:52

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Depends on how much you drive. Gas is pretty cheap for the moment though.

Bytemite > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 02/11/2016 at 17:54

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You enjoy driving a truck around...why? Because of its amazing handling and driving dynamics and chassis control? Please. Most of your “enjoyment” comes from inside your own head directly inflating the ego.

You say practical, and I bet that is backed up by your need to help a friend move once a year? Rent a uhaul. Practicality doesn’t come into effect once a year. Your gas mileage and emissions however, is an impracticality that is in effect all days of the year.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Berang 02/11/2016 at 17:57

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That’s true enough. I happen to have the luxury of a short commute.

Groagun > Nothing 02/11/2016 at 18:04

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Just curious, why not the Tundra and what does it have to do with being Union members?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Bytemite 02/11/2016 at 18:07

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It doesn’t make a blind bit of difference. The vehicle in question was aquired because the buyer in question liked it. Do they have any right to drive it if they want? Yes they do. Do they need it? Likely not. Though on that front the truck is more likely to be needed.

If a driver is not using the truck for work he is just driving it for stupid reasons like image they enjoy it.

I never said they were the same... I said if you don’t do truck stuff, you don’t NEED either one. So why is it OK do indulge a want one way and not another?

Groagun > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 02/11/2016 at 18:12

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Thanks for responding. I didn’t debate the driving dynamics of trucks vs anything else. I like driving trucks as well. I have driven tiny original Ford Rangers and even one of those EU delivery trucks you see base on old Fiat 500's, the originals, all the way up to an 18 wheeled transport truck once, that was an eye opener.

I take yours and a few others point about insurance, but that is changing and it simply isn’t and will not be as cheap to ensure going forward. There are lost of reasons why and popularity is one of them.

Yes, trucks are practical! I’m just asking people to look at the situation and really figure out whether or not they need as much ‘practicality’ as the Big 3 pick ups offer?

Groagun > Moltenburn 02/11/2016 at 18:13

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Haha!

Bytemite > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 02/11/2016 at 18:21

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Because indulging in the joy of driving a sports car is driving a car made to be driven for enjoyment and...driving it for enjoyment.

Driving a truck, which is made to be driven to haul things and do work, and then...not driving it to haul things and do work is a completely different story.

Neither are needed, but one is being used for its purposes and the other is just not. It is perfectly okay to indulge, but you’re buying a truck to indulge in truck things right? But you are not doing truck things with it. So, you’re not even indulging with the truck. You are indulging the ego boost and affirmation of manliness that truck gives you.

Dingers Ghost, Champion Jockey > Berang 02/11/2016 at 18:35

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I love this commercial because I remember recently reading about Chevy increasing aluminum use in their trucks. So obviously it can’t be as inferior as they made it out to be.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 02/11/2016 at 18:35

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We don’t need sports cars just as much as the next guy doesn’t need a V8 HD truck. There’s always such a thing as a vehicle you have no business owning - if you find it causes financial hardship, you have no business owning it. Perhaps it was hastily worded and implied that no one should have a big truck, but that’s not the case.

If someone enjoys it, fine, I’m in no place to judge whether or not they enjoy pickups or sports cars or keis. However, I am in a place where I can reject bullshit about someone else’s financial hardships caused by their own decision. They couldn’t deal with the mileage and decided to spend even more on another car and insurance. There was a sensible middle ground in getting one vehicle which was useful and economical, but they decided against that route, which is all fine as long as you’re ready to deal with the implications.

As cheap as gas may be in the US, you get completely fucked on gas and insurance in Ontario. Again, not that there’s anything wrong with owning both a gas guzzler and an ecobox, but if you decided to put yourself into a financial hole and weren’t ready to deal with everything legally required to drive your two cars - it wasn’t my problem then and certainly isn’t now.

Nothing > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 18:35

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Toyota is non-Union. Union guys will rarely, if ever, cross that line buying a vehicle. My brother in law bluntly stated he would be fired if he bought a Toyota.

The frumious Bandersnatch! > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 18:42

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It was fun reading the comments on the truckyeah posts last month. It helped me understand that the Ridgeline is ok for Harry homeowner going to the hardware store on the weekend but I need a real truck for my race car trailer / camper / load of gravel that I transport daily / a wet dog / lumberjack supplies / 44" mudders etc

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 18:44

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I realize that... That’s why that comment wasn’t directed at you.

The Ridgeline is more than enough for me, but it just isn’t for me. I like my Colorado, it’s a more capable “play truck” than the Ridgeline, and... it makes me happy!! Which is what counts.

Dingers Ghost, Champion Jockey > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 18:46

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One of the most prevalent things with truck buyers is supposed “brand loyalty.” Things like “All I’ve ever had are Fords/Dodge/GM and that’s all I will ever buy.” All of a sudden Honda came out with the Ridgeline, and everyone turned away from it because they haven’t been making trucks since WWII, or because their grandpappy didn’t drive one, or what have you.

I work as a technician at a Ford dealer. I feel like it wouldn’t surprise you how many people traded in previous-gen F-150's for the aluminum ones. The trucks that have been traded in are still good trucks in decent shape (of course there’s always exceptions but most of the time this is the case.) Why? Because truck buyers stick with one brand. Did all those people need a new truck? No, of course not. But their chosen brand came out with the new model and they had to have it. It’s hard to sway someone from that. Look at people who buy Powerstroke Super Duties. Powerstroke diesels over the years have been notorious for countless issues. Yet, the people who have bought Powerstrokes continue to buy Powerstrokes. People have a tendency to be loyal to a brand even to an extreme fault.

Groagun > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 02/11/2016 at 19:07

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Agreed and enjoy.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Bytemite 02/11/2016 at 19:07

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If I wanted to boost me ego I wouldn’t have bought a Colorado. The truck has been dismissed as sub-par at best for years. Reasons I like driving it? Right.

1. It actually handles OK. Not stellar (duh), but quite competent. The full size trucks actually get more points for this, as they handle a bit better.

2. It’s a sleeper because small truck big V8. This holds true for a full size as well because nobody expects something so big to move so quickly.

3. 4wd means I get to go exploring!!

4. 4wd means it’s very steady (and more fun) in snow.

5. Rwd makes for nicer driving dynamics than fwd.

6. Two callbacks to Top Gear for this point. When Hammond tested the Boxter and Z4M back to back, and the many outings of the SLS. The takeaway from Hammond’s test was that the Boxter was a precision instrument whereas the Z4 only behaved when you forced it to. The takeaway on the SLS was that it sucked onnantrack but was still fun. What I’m getting at is this. The truck is not a precision instrument. You need to grab it by the balls and shown it who’s in charge, and it will reward you. And it’s all you, you aren’t just getting taken for a ride.

I will reiterate my point on practicality. It costs a little more in fuel. That is more than offset by insurance savings due to it being a truck. It does my day to day, and hauls am whatever I need when I need it to. Whether that be helping move (not yet), hauling people and and a shitton of stuff to the beach, or hauling bikes to the hillsis nobody’s concern but mine. It is therefore practical both physically and financially. So... it meets my needs, wants and budget and I enjoy it, therefore anyone saying I was wrong to buy it needs to point that finger at themselves.

Groagun > Dingers Ghost, Champion Jockey 02/11/2016 at 19:09

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Well said and you are absolutely right.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Groagun 02/11/2016 at 19:17

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It’s too bad this didn’t come out this year or I’d probably have one.

facw > Berang 02/11/2016 at 19:38

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Not to mention, you can build a perfectly fine cage from aluminum:

http://www.carter2systems.com/#!zoo-polar-be…

Bytemite > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 02/11/2016 at 20:44

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1. I’m not gonna argue if you think a truck can handle.

2. No, it isn’t quick by any standard. V8 doesn’t make things automatically fast, especially not when you put it in a 5000+ lb truck with slushbox and low rpm tuning.

3. Okay if you are a nature explorer and you like to go off-road and stuff during the weekends then I can see why you got the truck.

5. You just said it was 4WD..?

6. No need to try to tell me that a truck can handle. It can’t. But if you are willing to drive a truck and sacrifice MPG and handling ability and driving fun for that additional utility and practicality that wagons and hatchbacks can also provide while being more fun to drive, then you made that choice. It is your choice and it meets your wants, maybe not your needs but your wants and that’s good. Good job.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > gin-san - shitpost specialist 02/11/2016 at 20:53

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OK, I’ll concede that point. If you can’t afford it you shouldn’t have it.

Re your last point though... I AM in Ontario.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Bytemite 02/11/2016 at 20:56

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I’ve posted about this before... It’s time we dropped “truck” from pickup truck. A pickup is just as at home as a recreation vehicle or as a family hauler as it is working.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Bytemite 02/11/2016 at 21:24

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1. I’ll address this with #6 as it’s probably easier to convey exactly what I mean that way—they’re kind of tied together.

2. Define “quick” and we can hash this one out further, but yes it is. 4100lbs for the record for me with roughly a 54/46 weight distribution. Around 6000 for a full size. HP/lb, that puts me at 13, or about the same as a Fiesta ST. A Silverado with a 6.2 is around 14, or Golf GTI. So like I was saying, what do you consider quick? I know those aren’t HUGELY fast, but only an idiot would consider a GTI to be slow. Or someone spoiled by really fas stuff maybe. I know I come in around the 6.5 second 0-60 range. On top of that extra power is easy and cheap to wring out of an LS V8. As far as the slushbox goes, most drag racers are autos... it doesn’t matter. It’s on a track that manual control is an advantage.

3. Yeah, I enjoy some light offloading when I get the chance. It’s fun to just bumble around just to see if you can :)

5. As in, part time 4wd. It’s rwd until I turn it on.

6. I feel like I suck at explaining on this point... I’ll try again. I’m not saying it’s a stellar handler, that would be rediculous. I’m saying it’s fine. It’s adequate. It has enough good and predictable charactistics that you can make up for the bad ones in a lot of ways. No it’s never (without serious modification) going to run with most half decent cars through the corners, but it handles well enough. Going back to the Z4 example, I wasn’t saying it handles like a Z4, I was saying the same raw thrill exists where you feel very involved in the process and can’t just leave it to the natural ability of the vehicle. It doesn’t have natural ability as such. It has the ability to make a stout effort, but only when you force it because it would rather lay back and cruise.

Hatchbacks with the ability to carry my stuff? Not likely m8. Wagons? With some effort. I would love a wagon, actually, but we come back around to insurance... I got a quote when I was looking for a vehicle of NINE.FUCKING.THOUSAND.DOLLARS. for an 01 Crapalier. Sorry m8, not in my budget.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Bytemite 02/11/2016 at 21:26

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Tbh I don’t really know why we’re arguing... You aren’t going to talk a truck guy into an anti truck guy or vice versa. Especially since we’re obviously on opposite sides of the pond in different situations.

But that damned Scottish blood won’t let me stop :)

Bytemite > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 02/11/2016 at 21:45

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Ah I see.

Remaining points then.

2. Come on...no it won’t do 0-60 in 6.5. I’m guessing you have the 305 hp V6? Come on, it’s way too fat to be doing that. The weight s 4,329 lbs. Similar power to weight ratio as hot hatches yes, but they have the advantage of having a dry clutch manual with much shorter gearing, higher final drive, less drive-train power loss, and lower weight with same power-to-weight ratio resulting in faster 0-60. Higher HP with same power-to-weight will lead to faster 60-100.

6. Couldn’t this argument be made to any cars that don’t handle well or aren’t made to handle well? I’ve driven some barges, and yeah you can involve yourself in fighting a high CoG, long wheelbase, understeering pig but it just wasn’t fun. In the Miata, you turn the wheel and bam, instant change in direction. Then you push that to the point where you are at the tire’s grip limits and feeling some slip in the rear as you are slaying corners and teetering on the verge of oversteer...that is fun.

And I didn’t know trucks get better insurance? Eh, but if that is the case I can’t argue. If where you live counts trucks as much cheaper to insure then that is a good choice.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Bytemite 02/11/2016 at 22:01

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Wrong generation. Late first gen, 300 HP V8 but 320 lb/ft torque. It is in the region of 6.5 seconds. I can’t remember the exact number but it could have been 6.7 seconds. Like I said roughly 4100 lbs. I’ll stick a camera on the speedo and get a proper number one of these days.

6. I’ll allow it, with some qualifiers. The vehicle must be reasonably well balanced even if it is a boat, and if it has a predisposition to anything it needs to be oversteer. All I know is I can have fun... Maybe it would be a good idea for me to completely shun stuff like the miata until I can actually own one so I don’t know what I’m missing, eh? That said I drove a Golf R recently... Too serious for me. I think I’d enjoy it on a track, but not every day.

I thought I put the insurance thing in my first comment. Must have got buried in the flood :)

TheOnelectronic > Bytemite 02/12/2016 at 00:23

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You... do realize that most 4wd trucks are part-time 4wd, meaning they’re RWD unless you engage the transfer case, right?

Bytemite > TheOnelectronic 02/12/2016 at 00:48

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Yeah/I should’ve just assumed.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Bytemite 02/12/2016 at 12:06

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5. Part time 4wd = RWD when you want, 4wd when you want

CobraJoe > Bytemite 02/12/2016 at 15:25

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Have you driven a truck? They’re not fun in a sports car way, they’re fun in an “I’m driving a large and nearly invincible machine” type of way. You laugh at people driving little hatchbacks. You find people who can’t fit stuff in the back of their sedan massively entertaining. Yes, you can claim that most of that is just ego inflating, but so is driving a sports car, so is driving a muscle car, so is driving a hybrid, so is driving a hatchback that you think is “superior” to the guy in the truck.

The practicality argument is a really hard one to refute. How often would you need the hauling capacity of a truck to buy one? Would you need to use it once a week to deem a truck necessary? Once a month? Once every other year? How many opportunities have you missed out on because of lack of carrying capacity or lack of wanting to cram something disgusting in the back of your hatchback? Fishing, hunting, boating, nearly any power sport, nearly any furniture purchase, nearly any home improvement project, and so many other things I’m forgetting about are so much easier with a truck bed.

I’m not even a truck person, I’ve used a little Volvo wagon for most of my home repair work, but there were times where the little wagon just couldn’t handle it, and we’d have to go borrow the truck from the wife’s dad.

Bytemite > CobraJoe 02/12/2016 at 15:35

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I drive a sports car because of how fun it is to drive, not to tell myself how manly I look in this excessively large work vehicle and to say IM DRIVING SOMETHING BIGGER THAN YOU.

If it isn’t a weekly need and you’re driving it every day, then the utility % of your truck is maybe 1 to 3%? That’s not enough. Rent a uHaul.

Well you know first hand that a wagon can handle most things and when you needed that truck you did the sensible thing and borrowed it for a day. What would have been insensible would be to buy a full size f150, drive it around all days of the year, just so you can feel good about how big your manly truck is and justify your decision with a once a year haul from home depot.

CobraJoe > Bytemite 02/12/2016 at 16:18

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I’m absolutely sure you drive the sports car because it’s fun. They are fun. However, I haven’t met a person yet who has any pride in their car that doesn’t look down on other people’s choice of vehicle. Just like how you’re looking down on truck owners. That’s your ego talking.

Just for fun though, let’s stick some numbers in to see just how insensible it is to own a truck vs a little wagon. Fueleconomy.gov shows that a 2007 F150 2wd would cost $1750 annually to fuel while a 2007 Volvo V50 (my old car) would cost $1450 a year (hey gas is cheap right now). That’s a $300 difference, and is quite noticeable difference. But what happens if you have to start renting uhauls to move stuff bigger than your little wagon? A pickup rental plus insurance from uhaul is $30 plus gas plus mileage. Not bad, that’s roughly 10 rentals a year... But what about the stuff you’re buying? We saved about $200 by buying a quality sectional from a big box store instead of the local furniture store. That furniture store will charge you $60 to deliver something unless they’re running a special. Roughly the same delivery charge for lumber from the local Menards. And then there’s the possibility of snagging a great deal off of craigslist or picking up free firewood or getting bulk mulch instead of buying those little bags.

Point is, if you really want to make the truck pay for it’s extra gas, it really isn’t hard to do. And don’t forget, that’s comparing it to a compact wagon, a full sized crew cab truck will have lots more interior space for the passengers.

Considering that, the rest is down to just needs and wants. After all, isn’t a sports car an unnecessary expense? Isn’t it completely insensible to drive a car everyday with handling and speed you can only use on a track? Wouldn’t a small hatchback or hybrid suit your transportation needs better with less expense?

Bytemite > CobraJoe 02/12/2016 at 16:30

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Okay since you worked up some numbers I can concede that a truck can be a practical solution that has net benefits. But as for the ego, it isn’t that. It is just my logic and common sense that makes me ask why the hell are people buying work vehicles if they don’t plan to use them for work and actually deliberately buy them for the image. As for sports cars, they are more fun to drive even on streets at legal speeds. I love the vibrations coming from the shifter, the steering wheel, the gas pedal that is actually connected to the throttle body. It gives fun in a tangible, physical way, not just inside the mind and ego of the driver. That’s why people love the Miata and FRS/BRZ, because it is a real focused sports car that delivers fun where it matters, the street. In a world of increasingly bloated sports GTs with limits beyond street level and ever increasing NVH-deadening, those are the cars we want more of.

CobraJoe > Bytemite 02/12/2016 at 16:44

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What you are saying there is that you like the experience of driving a non-damened sports car. I understand that, I love similar and slightly crude vehicles with an emphasis on power. However, that is not the only experience that an enthusiast can like.

I have driven and owned a very wide variety of vehicles, and even the most hated cars can provide an entertaining experience. (Except my wife’s former ‘09 Corolla, it was horrible).